Blackgirl Geographies
Blackgirl geographies, radical love, and freedom lands are the focal point of our conversation with Loren Cahill. We discuss cartography as a settler colonial project and also explore the many lessons to be learned from Harriet Tubman in our fight for abolition.
Connect with Loren Cahill:
Email: thespacelovemaps@gmail.com
Instagram: @lorensiobhan
Website: https://www.thespacelovemaps.com/
Link to Loren’s article here
Loren Cahill’s Go To’s:
Transcript (Please Excuse Errors)
[Music Intro ♫]
LaToya [LS]: Hey listeners, welcome to Abolition Science Radio. We're your hosts, I'm LaToya Strong.
Aderinsola [AG]: And I'm Aderinsola Gilbert, and we're here to discuss science, math, technology, and other things.
LS: And their relationship to colonialism.
AG: Oppression.
LS: Resistance.
AG: Education.
LS: And liberation.
AG: All through the lens of abolition.
LS: Join us as we learn and unlearn.
AG: Critique and create.
LS: All while building community.
[ ♫ Music fade out.]
[00:29]
AG: Hey y’all, welcome, welcome. We are back!
LS: Yeah, welcome back.
AG: How are you doing? How’s your heart doing right now?
[00:36]
LS: My heart feels good. I think all things considered, I am well. I washed my hair today, this morning, which was a – it’s a lot. It’s always like a, it’s a workout. Ha.
AG: Heyyy.
LS: I also talked to my moms this morning. So that was fulfilling. Filled up my soul. Yeah, so how are you doing?
[00:54]
AG: For some reason, I was thinking about that J. Cole song when you talked about – the workout song, when you talked about your hair.
LS: I mean, it is, so – it is a workout. A lot of hair.
[Both laughing.]
[01:07]
AG: Um, I’m doing – I’m feeling well rested. You know, so I’m thankful for nap ministry this weekend. And at the same time – still tired.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: Tired, because – we still in this pandemic.
LS: We are – like, Lauryn Hill been said, it could all be so simple. But y’all rather make us stay inside.
[01:27]
AG: For real – just –
LS: Put your damn mask on and don’t go nowhere you don’t gotta be. Ugh.
AG: Please! And thank you! Please and thank you. It’s really that easy. Really that simple.
[01:39]
LS: I mean, I guess, I personally don’t get it. Like, someone needs to explain it to me so that I can understand – why folks can’t just stay the fuck home and put a damn mask on.
AG: Ha. You know, and of course we say this, while holding the reality of, there are folks who don’t have that privilege of staying home. Yes. That’s not who we speaking to right now, though.
LS: Right, but like – it could. If everyone else stayed home, the folks that had to be out, it would be ok. There’d be less risk of transmission, but we’re making it dangerous for those folks that don’t have a choice.
AG: Speak. Yes.
LS: And for their families, because y’all wanna do whatever y’all gotta do.
[02:18]
AG: Seriously.
LS: Go on damn, illegal boat rides around the city of Manhattan. Get out of here.
AG: Haha. Right?! And we’re going into the winter – ah, you know, we could’ve enjoyed our fall. Enjoyed the little bits of summer that we had left, but no. Because don’t act right, we going in even more lockdowns. And, I don’t even know – and this piecemeal lockdown also, really…I’m perplexed by it. Just…
[02:43]
[Both laugh.]
LS: Because we know, ha, the virus is not contained in a zip code!
AG: Ha ha ha.
LS: De Blasio and Cuomo, so dumb.
AG: Ha ha ha. Well, I really –
LS: The virus moves with people.
AG: Thank you.
LS: Like, the virus isn’t like, ‘oh no, they shut down this zip code, I guess we just gotta Uber around this neighborhood.’ Like, no. Ha.
AG: Ha ha ha ha. ‘Oh oh oh oh – wait, this not the zip code, sorry y’all, we can’t cross that line. Can’t cross over to that block.’ No. It’s foolish.
LS: Foolish.
AG: Foolish.
LS: Ashanti said that too, foolish.
AG: Ha ha ha.
[03:23]
LS: But, tell me what you’re listening to! On a different note. What are you listening to?
[03:28]
AG: Well, you know, to get the body moving, to get the spirit just, you know, just feeling joyous – I’m right now listening to Tiwa Savage, “Koroba”.
LS: Mmmm.
AG: Um, it just hits, it strikes. And just also, anything that Afrobeat, Afropop, that gets – my spirit just moves.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: And after that movement, or during, in the midst of the movement, I’m finding joy. Joy just radiates.
[03:53]
LS: I mean, there’s millions of reasons to love Tiwa Savage. I think the thing I love most about her is her refusal – her absolute refusal to exist as a Black woman how other people expect her to be. For whatever respectability, or anti-Black concepts they have developed, or how Black women should behave and she’s consistently like – nah. I’mma live my life and do me. As I wanna do, not how you want me to be. So, thank you Tiwa for constantly modeling that.
AG: Yes. Thank you. It continues to be the source of much joy. Ha ha, in my day. But um, what about for you? Who are you listening to?
[04:35]
LS: I, so, today, when I – my background music and my theme song for wash day was, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony. And I had their East 1999 Eternal album on repeat. Which was, fun fact, my first CD.
AG: What, oh!
LS: Back when CDs were a thing.
AG: Right. Oh man. God, those were the days. Oh wow.
AG: Do you wanna give us a little sample right now, for this part?
[05:00]
LS: I mean. I’m – not now, but I can. Ha ha ha ha.
AG: Ha ha ha. Alright. Alright. So, today we have such a treat in store for you.
LS: We do! Oh, I’m so excited.
AG: We have a friend, a colleague, joining us today here on the show, Loren Cahill. Who is here to talk to us about Blackgirl Geographies. There will be a link attached to the site to look at her article[AC1] , that really shares the core of her work around Blackgirl Geographies, Liberation, and Abolition.
[05:39]
LS: So, just a bit about Loren. She has a B.A. in Africana Studies, with a minor in Education from Wellesley College. And a Masters of Social Work degree from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. And so, she’s also a doctoral candidate at CUNY Grad Center, which is where Derin and I are also grad students. And her research interests are around how Blackgirls radically love and transform their realities - socially, spiritually, and spatially.
And so, Derin, this episode is something that you sort of dreamed up. And can you maybe just talk to us a little bit about why you wanted to – like, why Loren and why this topic?
[06:15]
AG: Yeah, so it seems that we’ve been, in kicking off, right at the beginning, right, from our last episode. In following this like - in talking about care – we started to broach that more right.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: And also – so, we’re talking about care, but right away, in thinking about too, for me, especially care with also, love. What are the ways in which care is coming from our place of love? Where are those places that we’re seeing that love. And so, when I think about that, who’s in my community, surrounding that - um, a lot – definitely Loren came to mind.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: Loren’s work in centering really radical love, especially radical love amongst Blackgirls has…has, in the classrooms that we’ve shared, and also in personal conversations that we’ve had, has really been that source of inspiration and hope in continuing this endeavor within the academy. Right. I always leave our conversation feeling transformed, and again, inspired.
I definitely feel that Loren is a dope scholar. She wrote an article, which was the impetus of this interview. The title of the article is “Blackgirl Geography: A Remapping Guide Towards Harriet Tubman and Beyond.” And in talking about Blackgirl geographies, it’s just like – as a Afrofuturist, nerd - sci-fi nerd, fan fic – all of that, it just, it hit all that, for me.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: Also, in the time that we’re in now, it’s just ok – where are these spaces in which we are really drawing upon for love and care? And Loren and her work has been one of those spaces for me.
[08:05]
LS: Dope. Yeah, let’s get into it.
AG: Let’s go.
[ ♫ Music in background.]
[08:15, Music cuts.]
LS: Loren, thank you so much for being with us today. It’s a Saturday afternoon, it’s mad nice outside. Uh, we’re really excited to have this conversation, but could you take some time to briefly share with listeners a little bit about yourself and what song or artist are you currently listening to?
Loren S. Cahill [LC]: Sure! Yeah. I’m really excited to be here. My name is Loren Cahill. I am a fifth year doctoral candidate at CUNY’s Graduate Center. I’m a recent Schomburg Dissertation Fellow, Provost Enhanced Fellow at my school. And I’m dissertating. I’m in the mix of trying to whip up a dissertation.
AG: Hey!
LC: Ha ha. But what’s really getting me through is I curated this dissertation soundscape on Spotify.
LS & AG: Ohh!
AG: What!
LC: I’mma send it to y’all, cause it really be getting me through. That’s the ritual. Put that music on and write! Haha. But like, the artist that comes on the soundscape – there’s probably two that come on the soundscape a lot, that are just, holding me through this process. And they’re Jamila Woods. And Noname, the rapper Noname. And I just, I’m a huge reader, but I feel like, as artists, they’re able to take music to Black feminist futurities that I’ve just never experienced anywhere outside of the page.
[09:35]
So, much love to Jamila Woods. I think, I really love her new song, “SULA.” And I also like, Noname’s “Freedom Interlude.” I just put that on and cry all the time. Ha ha ha.
[09:47]
AG: Oh!
LC: That’s my joy. I’m just trying to get free and out of the academy as fast as possible.
[09:54]
AG: Oh, love, I’m about to – yep. That’s definitely going on my playlist. Yes.
LC: Yess.
LS: Yeah, thank you for those recs. And yeah, looking forward to that playlist.
AG: Looking forward to it.
LC: Yeah, I’ll send it your way.
[10:05]
LS: Alright, so. Our conversation, before we get into the conversation. We want to talk about this word, Blackgirl. So, you write and speak it in a very specific way, which is just as one word. Learn me something, can you break that down for us.
[10:21]
LC: Sure, of course! So, I write Blackgirl as one word with no space, kind of, pulling on the legacy of Robin Boylorn’s work. And she writes really beautifully, I’m just gonna read it cause it’s a couple sentences. Um, Robin Boylorn says: “It speaks to the twoness and oneness of my raced and gendered identity. I’m never only Black or only girl/woman, but always both and at the same time. I merged the words to make them touch on the paper the way that they touch in my everyday existence.”
LS: Mhmm.
LC: So, to me, I’m a Blackgirl. I feel that heavy. I do work with Blackgirls in the field. I recently did some oral histories, and they were repeatedly telling me that the work we do as Black women is healing our inner Blackgirls.
LS: Mm.
LC: We’re never just one. Oftentimes, Blackgirls are adultified. And we can never think about our girlhood or our womanhood, without it being in conversation with our Blackness. So, I just merge it all together cause that’s the way it lands on me in my body. And other people that tell me it’s feeling that way for them too.
[11:25]
AG: That’s what’s up.
LC: Yeah.
AG: So, then. In that same vein, like, what is uh, cartography and geography? And how is that within that context, within settler-colonial project.
[11:38]
LC: For sure. Yes! So, my understanding of geography, um, at least the heteronormative, the dominant definition of geography is really – it’s a study of physical features of the Earth and the atmosphere and how humans interact with that. And cartography is the art and science of how people map different geographical areas.
And I think how, cartography often becomes a settler-colonial project, is white supremacy. White folks really developed like, what nation-states are to their advantage to hold onto their privilege. So we see this in like, the Scramble for Africa, how people carved up Africa to their advantage. We see this in the fact that Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are essentially colonies of the United States. And like, definitely don’t get the voting powers that they deserve. So, I think often times, our first understanding of geography is in the physical map of the globe. But I think there’s some subaltern geographies that people are mapping for themselves, to get to some sacredness and to some freedom. And that’s kinda what I try to explore in my research.
[12:42]
AG: Ooh.
LS: Ok, before we move forward. I just want – just so we have, to reiterate these terms. So geography, basically you’re saying is the study of the physical features of the Earth. So it’s the place. Um, cartography is how we map that geography.
LC: Mhmm.
LS: Uh, so mapping is like, done by us humans. Which, in turn like shapes the geography. We say what the geography is through our mapping.
LC: Exactly. Like, our interpretation of what land is, what space is, what resources are, and how we label those. But often times, I think that like, white folks map in ways that most benefit them and them holding onto power.
[13:23]
LS: Got it. And then you also mentioned this word, subaltern. Could you break that down for us as well, please?
LC: Of course, yeah! So, subaltern is things that are hidden in plain sight. [Mhmm] What is the underground? How do we still do really insurgent work while we’re experiencing oppression or systems that are working against our humanity? And how we still get work done and accomplished.
[13:50]
LS: Got it, thank you.
AG: In that vein of subaltern work, you connect Boylorn’s concept of Blackgirl and geography and this mapping. Can you speak more to like, what is Blackgirl geography and how does our ancestor, Harriet Tubman, help us to understand Blackgirl geography?
[14:09]
LC: Of course, so yeah. Like I was mentioning earlier. I’m seeing – I’m defining Blackgirl geography as a subaltern creation and curation of freedom land and radical love sites for Blackgirls. So, essentially in a world that doesn’t always see our humanity, or want us to experience the fullest definition of freedom or to be loved – how are Blackgirls daring to imagine or create and curate that space for ourselves in spite of these realities?
So, um, that’s what I’m really trying to figure out, like how are people still imagining and curating space for us and by us. And um, I think the connection to Harriet Tubman and a lot of ancestors – I’ll speak to Harriet Tubman directly cause that was the question – that Harriet’s just one of the dopest Blackgirl geographers there ever was.
[14:59]
LS: Oh.
AG: Yep. Facts.
LC: So, ha. She took 13 trips back and forth to the South, to the North, to really manifest this idea I’m speaking to. Just, she really dared to imagine freedom for herself and others. And then went on to create spaces where people could be in true community and experience like, the greater bounds of freedom. Yeah.
[15:25]
LS: Listen. In your article, you talked about how you learned about Harriet Tubman at school. And I always reflect on that too, I was like, oh. Harriet Tubman, you know, came and she freed some slaves. But no one ever said she went back multiple times to free the slaves – excuse me, not the slaves, enslaved Africans and their descendants.
LC: I mean – Harriet Tub – I don’t know if we can curse on this show, but she was just truly a badass. Like, y’all. Thirteen times is – is particularly phenomenal considering all that was stacked against her. So, like, Harriet Tubman was married to a man who was freed. So that was a huge deal for her to not only compromise her self-emancipation, but also the free status of her husband. She went back and freed her mother and her father. Uh, she went back and freed her brothers. Actually, the first time Harriet Tubman attempted to free herself, she took her brothers and they like, basically forced her to turn back around. And she like, vowed to herself on that day, like, I’m never listening to a man again – that’s getting in the way of my freedom. And uh, she eventually did go back and get her brothers, but uh, they tried to get in the way, um.
LS: Mm mm.
[16:37]
LC: She did all this work to free not only herself, but her family and so many others. And I just feel like she doesn’t get her fair due. In the history books – I think she’s coming into vogue now, with the movie and the currency that may or may not ever happen – her -
LS: Please no.
LC: Her home – Right. Right, we can have the conversation about that too.
AG: Oh. Yep.
LC: Should she be on money or not? I don’t agree with that, I’m probably with you LaToya. I just think that, she was so much more – she was this tremendous conductor on the Underground Railroad, but she was also this really dope scout during the Civil War. And she fought to get her pensions paid, and she’s just this dynamic individual who also helped out with like the women’s Suffrage movement. She was doing all this work with um, abolitionists and suffragists and um, just, just the total phenomenal Black woman. And that has a lot to bring to bear on geography and a lot of other spaces.
[17:35]
AG: See, and I think that part really – that aspect. I mean, the whole article spoke to me, definitely. And this work. But especially this, multidimensional layers that is Harriet Tubman, and what - versus the very – I don’t even wanna really call it sanitized – I don’t know what it was that they taught us in school, but it was so decontextualized, considering the time, like what she was doing.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: And one thing that really drew me even closer to Harriet’s story, Harriet’s legacy is this legacy of healing. Like, she had an intimate knowledge – and what you shared about that, it’s just like, how much of that has never even been really shared. And public schools or formal k-12 education, this aspect of her healing and how she tapped into that.
[18:19]
LC: Yes, she was listening to rivers, and reading constellations, and like, coming up with plant based medicine to heal folks. Like, to make sure that they got where they needed to be. She would create this root work to put babies to sleep, so they wouldn’t be crying and giving people up. Like, she had a deep, deep ancestral knowledge of plant based history and it really really helped her a great deal with the ways in which she was able to navigate as a Blackgirl geographer, for sure. And it, like, as you said, it’s completely stripped from most writings about her and her life.
[18:56]
LS: Yeah. Uh, thank y’all both for bringing that up. So, I think it also speaks to – so in like, in this Science Education world, STEM, STEAM, and all the variations of it – trying to get at exactly what y’all are talking about. But it’s still decontextualized. The problem with, for me, the problem with Western science is, one it’s decontextualized for what it is. So, it’s like colonial history, capitalism, imperialism, etc. But then I like, oh, STEM and STEAM, we’ll integrate all these things, not understanding that those things already exist.
AG: Mhmm.
LS: And like, cultures and community and so I feel like, this is just a prime example of what it should actually look like, but you have to place it in context. So, y’all are mentioned that Harriet knew astronomy, botany, geography – so knowing the lands - cartography, if you will.
LC: Yess! Yes.
AG: Ha ha ha ha.
[19:48]
LS: But so do you – I mean, I don’t know, cause you – how familiar you are with like the STEM and STEAM and science education world, so Loren, is there anything that you can sort of have science teachers think about in light of Harriet Tubman?
[20:02]
LC: I think that, like with most canonical literature, she should just be added as – as a pillar of it. To be honest, I think, um, and we can see this across a lot of different disciplines. But uh, we should start with Harriet Tubman and not George Washington Carver. I feel like that was the first – I don’t know with y’all –
AG: Facts. It was – yep.
LC: It was George Washington Carver, but we have so many examples of people who were enslaved that were doing really phenomenal things. That, to advance plant based medicine, to really think through science, and we just need to acknowledge them and cite them.
LS: Mhmm.
LC: And uplift what they offered to the field. So, I’m not a big scientist, I’m excited to be on the show, but I just think she should be definitely a part of the canonical literature. Even though, she didn’t, you know, write it down – her praxis needs to be uplifted and cited in the field.
[21:02]
AG: And can I – I wanna kind of lift more around that praxis of like, if it’s not in text, right – then how do you get access to this layer or context that is Harriet, and also for others who are not in this vein or even seen as people who contribute to this world, to the science disciplines, just like – one, how did you come across that Harriet had this deep history? Or the knowledge around plant medicine and how do we then make that more accessible to folks? Like, where do you find this information? That’s my – ha.
[21:34]
LC: For sure. I mean, it came from Black women authors, of course. Ha ha.
AG: Mhmm. Say it, yup.
LC: So, um, Leah Penninman wrote this really phenomenal book called Farming While Black. And it’s actually very, a very small sub-section, but she has – I think Harriet’s in there twice, speaking to the ways in which she engaged with plant based medicine. Leah Penniman has this beautiful, Soul Fire Farm, up in upstate New York.
LS: Oh yeah.
LC: And she kinds speaks to some of the ancestral knowledge of people who came before here. So I was like, oh this is so dope, why is nobody talking about this? Why is nobody bringing her into this genealogy? So, I found the work first there, and then a little bit later on, I came across this book called She Came to Slay: The Life and Times of Harriet Tubman, written by Erica Armstrong Dunbar.
AG: Mm.
LC: And she just has this gorgeous, gorgeous biography of Harriet Tubman. Like you were mentioning, Derin, a little bit earlier – as we, well, maybe people don’t know – so I’m just gonna say it. Harriet Tubman was illiterate. So, she couldn’t read, she couldn’t write. The biographies that we have about her were written by, quite frankly, like racist white women.
AG: Yep.
LC: Who, did a little bit of talking down about her. They didn’t always believe all that she said that she did. Or didn’t chronicle her experiences in their fullness or their totality. So a lot of people are just now – these books came out in like the last five years – are just now getting the story right, or are just now piecing together some of the archives or are listening to people who are close to her who were literate to write about her experiences in their totality. So, that’s kinda where I started. The Schomburg up in Harlem has some archives on Harriet Tubman as well. So while I was working there, I kinda dug around in those archives. And some of them are even digitized, if people wanna learn more.
[23:21]
AG: Oh, ok, thank you.
LC: Of course!
LS: So this – both of you y’all are talking about, sort of the text and written word. And so it really is a, I think, serves as a way to erase and displace Black histories and Black culture when you put this emphasis on text. When the oral history have been our – [Yeah.] tradition for so long. So Loren, if we could circle back to – you mentioned you were doing oral histories at the beginning. Could you speak a little bit more about that? And like, sort of the importance of oral histories?
[23:54]
LC: Absolutely, yeah. So, I would say that all of my major projects in my PhD program have circled back to oral history. Because of what you just said LaToya, I wanted to get as close as I could to the knowledges that we’ve always had within African diasporan thought. And I found like across the diaspora, like, we’ve always had oral history. So I wanted to uplift that as a serious research method. So, in my most recent work for my dissertation, I’m doing oral histories with founders and participants in what I’m calling radial love sites in Philadelphia. So, I’m doing oral histories with the founders of the Colored Girls Museum, Our Mother’s Kitchens, and Black Quantum Futurism. And just trying to understand how they’re creating, curating, theorizing – creating space for Blackgirls in Philly. Trying to understand why they, you know, how they move past their fears and anxieties to just go ahead and do it. What’s the most important features of this space? If they can be replicated? What they offer people and why they’re essentially doing that work.
So, I’ve been doing those oral histories over the past couple weeks and in the upcoming weeks, I’m hoping to sit down with some of the younger Blackgirl participants and just getting a better sense of what they get out of spaces that are specifically curated for them.
[25:17]
AG: Wow.
LS: Thank you. Are there ways, if y’all don’t mind sharing – in your own families, what that oral history looks like and how stuff got passed on?
So, for example for me, in my family, it was always hair. So, if we were getting our hair braided or getting our hair pressed, a lot of stories got passes on cause we were all there gathered, like in the kitchen.
[25:37]
AG: Mmm.
LC: Yeah. The kitchen is powerful. I would say that, yeah, the kitchen was pretty powerful. A lot of holidays. I got lots of good insights. I spent a lot of time with my grandparents when I was younger, so just sitting in my grandparents’ home, I learned most of my family history from them. I’m actually also doing oral histories with my own family for my dissertation, cause, I don’t know. This is just my ethical practice. If I’m gonna go be digging into people’s lives, what they’re doing, I gotta also put myself on the page. If I’m asking that of others – so, I’ve been doing oral histories with my mom and my dad about how I’ve taught them how to be free. And how they’ve taught me how to be free. It’s been really really powerful. Just to do it for myself and to do it in community, it’s a really powerful practice.
[26:26]
LS: Mhmm.
AG: Yo, that is just - I’m out here. I’m just inspired by both. Um, for me, similar spaces – the kitchen. The kitchen especially around passing on recipes. Both parents were born in Nigeria. So, being what first, second generation Nigerian, right. Food was a way of passing on those stories. Then, for me, it’s interesting too, mentioning the about plant medicine – but, as a kid, and also some of my sibling too, we just in dealing with certain illnesses, so a lot of histories were passed by medicine and getting the healing plant. So whether it be by things that were brought over, or things that they would have to connect with other communities here to create in the kitchen. So the kitchen would be the site and where all of these oral histories would pass. Both my parents are really great storytellers. And so when it came to their childhood and everything that was happening, again, it would be stories too that would really let us know about our, our family legacies and just things that were also happening back then in Nigeria. And what forced them to come over here to America. So, that would be both the kitchen and I think the living room – would be the spaces, actively where those.
[27:36]
LS: Thank y’all both for sharing. The cook, the plant based medicine resonates, the cooking one – I think if you - I like, for me, I was there growing up and went through this thing. No one has ever said just cook this, you learn through different stages. So maybe it’s like ok, you get to season it, now you get to boil the water, you get to go through these steps. Now, when I’m like ‘hey, can you teach me how to cook this?’ I’ll be like, ok, I can – like, you just add this much seasoning, until it looks right. Then mix it until it feels right. I’m like ok, that doesn’t help me. Ha ha ha ha.
LC: Heyy. That’s cooking by vibration. For sure.
[All laugh.]
LC: Lots of people, just the vibe when they gotta stop. When they gonna stop.
AG: Yep.
LC: Another important site I wanted to uplift, this may just be part of my genealogy because I’m African American, but the porch. The porch is a really important place for oral histories.
AG & LS: Mhmm.
[28:24]
LC: I remember like, often sitting on like, my front porches with grandparents or older members of my family and then talking through some family history. But um, for sure the kitchen, the living room, the porch, deep deep knowledge sharing happening in those places.
AG: I feel like I’m time traveling as we’re going through this conversation.
LC: Ha ha.
AG: And just kinda seeing those conversations take place. And also thinking about also, what was kinda happening around the time when these conversations were taking place – what events, maybe kicked off these moments of sitting down and having these stories being passed on. And then, also kinda think about today right. With everything that’s going on, what stories are being held in those spaces from the kitchen, the porch, and also in the living room.
I guess, to kinda go back to some of our questions, what role did Blackgirl geographies play in the abolition movement for Harriet Tubman’s time?
[29:21]
LC: Yeah. I mean…I think that most Blackgirl abolitionists were doing very similar work. I think that Harriet Tubman’s one of our more famous examples. She’s a little bit more in vogue, but I think that a lot of Blackgirl abolitionists have been doing similar things with space and time. I’ve been doing research on Blackgirl abolitionists in Philly, cause that’s where my dissertation is, but Amy Matilda Cassey was an abolitionist in Philly and she was curating space. She was a free Black woman, but just, doing really dope work curating space for Blackgirls around her to think through friendship and freedom. She had this space called the Gilbert Lyceum, where people would gather to talk through freedom practices and strategies. And figure out how they could leverage their power and privilege as free Blacks to still be of service to people who were still fighting for their freedom. So, I think, that’s a similar use of geography, yeah. She wasn’t on the ground, carrying people, but she was doing thought building, thought partnership with others.
[30:28]
LS: Mhmm.
LC: And then, another person. I think her name is Caroline Virginia Still; William Still daughter. She was curating industrial schools for people to get trained so that once they were able to be free, that they could go into work where they could have a livelihood for their families. So, that training happened for Blackgirls and Blackboys in Philly. So I think that’s also another really important space and another important part of the project; us being able to sustain ourselves.
[30:59]
So I think that any space that’s really trying to get us to greater freedom, is an important site of Blackgirl geography. And, I think really brings a lot to bear on how we create a new world by offering us those building blocks to get there.
[31:16]
AG: Ah.
LC: Should I also bring up more examples about Harriet Tubman? Would that be-
AG: Go ahead, go ahead.
LC: Ha ha ha. Ok, so some other examples specifically about Harriet Tubman was, once she had retired from being a conductor on the Railroad, she also was able to purchase her own home which was really unheard of for that time. But not only did she purchase the home, she moved her mom and her dad in there. She was letting people live with her, after they had recently been freed. She uh, used her garden to help feed folks and community who couldn’t always afford food in that part of upstate New York. And then later in life, she also created a home for the Elderly, so when people could no longer be taken care of by their family members, she offered a space for them, also on her property, for them to be taken care of. So, she was preparing places for people, at every iteration of her life, to be loved, to be cared for. To be seen, and to just experience greater freedom, so. Just, her work didn’t stop on the Railroad, just wanted to uplift that.
[32:20]
AG: Yes. Thank you for bringing that, because that is something that, again, one of the things that is really not really mentioned or highlighted in this mainstream discourse around Harriet’s life.
[32:30]
LC: Her last words, literally were, “I go to prepare a place for you.” And that’s I think that’s like, a, Bible quote, but, like, I think really powerful to – when we think about this conversation about Blackgirl geography. All she did was prepare places for others – to make sure that others could be ok. And I think that degree of selflessness really should be uplifted more than it is.
[32:56]
LS: So going back to this concept of, cartography as a settler-colonial project, and mapping. Thinking about just private property and that in general. And so, it’s like, you now, because you bought a house, or you can afford a house, you now have a slice of this project. And now you’re also helping to uphold it. But – it’s like, what can you do if you have that property? And so I feel like, how you’re explaining how Harriet even used this house and land that she has pushes back against that. So it wasn’t just like, I have this, so I’m good for me and mines. But like, I have this and this is now for the community too.
AG: Mmm.
[33:39]
LC: Yeah, for sure, I think that Harriet knew that she – in a lot of ways was famous. She was acknowledged, she got her propers from white folks. But she knew like, a lot of people close to her did not. And um, she didn’t really like, let that go to her head. But she did leverage it for her community. So I think – this white dude named William Seward bought the house and gifted it to her and she helped pay down the note. But once she figured out how to leverage her resources to get a physical lodging for herself, she made sure that her mom and her dad moved in. And she later married another man, I think his last name was Davis, after she divorced John Tubman. But, she made sure that he was taken care of and he was a military veteran. And she also made sure that when other people were looking for lodging after they had recently escaped, that they had safe lodging. Like, she just never stopped.
And to be doing that degree of activism, organizing, and just really care, caregiving at such an old age – yeah, she never stopped thinking about how her people could be free, and how they could be like, loved and taken care of. And I think, really, I think that’s abolition.
[34:56]
AG: Mhmm.
LC: I mean like, trying to get as close to it, like while we’re existing under these systems of oppression that are causing us harm and don’t mean us well – but figuring out how to leverage them in ways that offer more resources to community, I think that brings to bear important teachings and learnings and implications for abolition, then and today.
[35:16]
AG: Mmm.
LS: Yep. And the last thing I’ll say, because I mean, she really is an amazing example of literally everything – about how your role in the movement changes with the different stages of your life.
AG: Mhmm.
LC: Yeah. Yeah, I think we need to think through that. Particularly in this moment, with the Movement for Black Lives. But I think that, when she was younger, I think Harriet Tubman first self-emancipated herself when she was 27 years old.
LS & AG: Mhmm.
LC: And that was the age I was when I wrote the article. I just thought that was crazy. All the shit she had done at 27. I’m just like, I’m just writing this little article but oh well. But at 27, she was doing this deep work, being a conductor on the Underground Railroad. She had done it at least 13 times. Some scholars argue about it, but I’mma say 13 times, because that’s what Harriet said. And after that, she moved into being a spy during the Civil War. So basically, listening in and bringing intel to make sure that the North won the war. And she led the Combahee River Raid. That’s actually what the Combahee River Collective named themselves after, that powerful action.
[36:24]
LS: Mhmm.
LC: She was able to free like, 750 slaves in like one day. Which is just, crazy. Ah ha. Just super super fierce work. And later on, she moved into doing more caregiving of soldiers who had been harmed. While she did that work, she was also cooking for other people, and then eventually, she retired from that work and moved to upstate New York. And while she was there, she took care of her husband who was very sick. She was able to continue to farm, she was very active in her church community, and I think by the time she was a little bit older, instead of just retiring, she was still thinking about people like herself, who were older and making sure they had spaces. So I think she went through so many different iterations in her movement work. A lot of them were based on what she was physically able to do.
AG: Mhmm.
LC: But also the fact that she was making sure that all her movement work was sustainable. Building up leadership in others, knowing when to step back and when to let others take on the brunt of the work. And just figuring out how to be of service for whatever she could offer. And I think that also has important lessons for us who engage in movement work and wanna really put forth the work of abolition as well.
[37:36]
AG: Wow.
LS: Ah ha, I know.
AG: Thank you. Just – I’m just
LS: Stunned into silence.
AG: Just learning so much, again. From this conversation, Loren. And holding so much hope and inspiration even as we’re facing the times that we’re in right now. Right. We are in an election year. Ha. And even now, the calls for action around that. And also, what we are seeing in terms of like, the call for action amongst, lets say “black celebrities” – namely, more so Black men. And the space that has been taken up, from whether it be Ice Cube’s – I don’t even know what to call Ice Cube’s whatever – but um, to Diddy’s Black political party, like, how do you –
[LS & LC Laughing]
[38:23]
AG: Like, one, I want to know – Loren, what is your responses? And just then, how could it be better? I don’t know – I don’t even know.
[38:34]
LC: Ha ha. Yeah, that’s a huge question. That’s a real question though. To me, I just try to block it out. Like, I can’t even follow people like that on social media. If people are posting about them, I often block them. One, cause I just – it’s just too much for me to hold.
I think what is giving me hope, or what is grounding me is the work that Black women and Black femmes are doing. I’m really deeply inspired by the work happening – again, in Philly.
Hey, did y’all hear about all those single moms who were occupying abandoned houses in Philly? And they won!
AG: Yep! Yep.
LC: And that’s the biggest occupation like that to ever win. Like a major city like ever, and Black women - Black single moms – held that down. I’m so deeply inspired by that. That’s what I’m focused on. Instead of P. Diddy. Ha. Um. I think that is deep, dope, abolitionist, Blackgirl geographical work that’s gonna hold us over into the future, into this crazy time in this election where people are often not valuing our lives and our humanity.
So, I’m thinking about them. I’m thinking about artists collectives, like the Wide Awakes in New York who are doing abolitionist artwork. And doing these pop-ups across the city to allow people to gather together and think through liberation through art. Uh, thinking about Mariame Kaba’s work. I think she’s like a dope dope abolitionist who’s helping us to think through and has created so many spaces in Chicago and New York for people to be able to engage and think through these ideas of transformative justice and abolition. Black Mama’s Bailout. Those are the folks that I’m looking to. And I think that if we uplift them more, give them more space, then they’re the people who are gonna bring us out of this mess.
[40:22]
I don’t know if you had something different to say, LaToya, but yeah.
[40:25]
LS: I think that is the perfect answer. I will say this. I – if P. Diddy’s hands is on anything, I don’t trust it.
LC: Word. Ha ha.
LS: This whole like, we are on the verge of a race war – my question to people like P. Diddy and everybody else who’s like, yes, we’re on a verge, is – why are you only just on the verge now? What comfort has the settler state given you that Trump is your issue? As Trump, to me, is the same as any other president. Some of them are more outspoken about their racism and that they don’t give a fuck about certain people and other people will smile in your face, someone like Biden. And then, just do it behind your back. And so, if Trump is the problem to you, you need to ask yourself what comforts does the settler state give you when the problems of this country are beneath the carpet – for you? When the problems of the country are beneath the carpet for you? Cause for others, it don’t matter. Like, the oppression is real 24/7, seven days a week, regardless of who’s up in that White House. So.
[41:34]
AG: Mhmm. Yes. Yes. It’s this um…when you…I think back to the question of – the statement you made about role, in the work, and what is your role? And how is that role ever changing? Right. If your comforts, as you mentioned LaToya, is like with Trump and everything that’s happening right now. Like, ok, if you have that fine – that privilege to be where it is that – the urgency has now for you. Rather than the legacy of presidencies that has already been in place and the conditions in which folks are living in now have not been as urgent as before. Um, do you – you probably don’t need to be leading anything at this point.
[42:33]
LS: Ha ha ha.
AG: No. Maybe you are not at the helm. No. You know, um. But if you have that – the coins, and you know that – and I think that’s the thing that I’m really excited about when it comes with Abolition Science, is that, lifting up – this is the work that is taking place. Here it is. This is where your coins can go. This is what you can fund with your coins. You don’t need to be leading anything. You can just funnel your coins there. That’s where, um, to help continue to sustain this work. And I think one thing that I really really appreciate from this conversation is, especially, as it relates to the legacy of Harriet Tubman is to engage in work that is sustain – that can be also sustained. You know, because how many – I know, how many of us have been a part of – even heard of these. Ok, there’s this initiative that we’re going to take on. By this, this, this, we’re gonna have this. You know. Um, we try to quantify. Like, ok, this is what we mean by success. Or, this is how we’re going to mark this progress. When, how much of it should we just be oriented like, how can we sustain these labors of love so that generations – the seven generations that will come after us, will have something to come to, will have something to garner sustenance from. Rather than trying to have a really nice powerpoint or bullet point, where you’re like, ok, I have these many number of people can say that we did this, or, this is our benchmark for marking that. Ok, this is where – in my mind, often where this initiative ends. We’re done.
Well no, we’ve – that may be the surface and we still have a long way to go. I don’t know if that made any sense. But.
[44:21]
LC: That makes perfect sense. And just, bringing it to Harriet. The fact that she was, you know, illiterate but she still left a map for us to know her. Right.
AG & LS: Yeah. Mhmm.
LC: She still left a model for us to lean on. I think that’s the power of the work. For it to be so formidable, for it to be so grounded in love and care and freedom that we, in 2020, can talk about the implications that it brings to bear on us.
AG & LS: Mhmm.
LC: And that’s the power of ancestors. That’s the power of abolition. Yeah, that’s the power of all of it.
[44:54]
LS: Yeah. And Loren, your response to Derin’s question, when you was like, I’m not listening to them but here are the people that I am listening to and giving my energy to. I think, going back to what you opened with, when Harriet was like, I’m gonna stop listening to these men. Haha.
[All laugh.]
LS: You again just showed us – like yes, let’s stop listening to them. Cause they not the ones. Um, but in that, and I’m hoping you can speak to this more. All the examples that you named, of all the folks that you uplifted, you mentioned the terms before radical love sites, and freedom lands. And so, I’m wondering if you can learn us something again – like, you’ve been dropping so much knowledge already – if you could continue.
LC: Yes.
LS: And just sort of talk about what those are, and if any of the examples that you already gave us with the people that you uplifted – how those exist within the work they’re doing?
[45:50]
LC: Yeah. So, a lot of that work is coming out of my dissertation. So, I’m obsessed with this idea of radical love and Blackgirls. And, my idea for it really is, and I’mma drop it here so we can say that I cited it, cause I’m always nervous about that. My stuff being scooped up.
AG: Heyy.
LC: But this citational proof – this is a radical citation right [AC2] here – but my definition for radical love is really, the ritualized work that Blackgirls are engaging in to remember their past and reimagine their future.
So, what that means and what that brings to bear in space, what that brings to bear in relationships, what that brings to bear in how we are holding our relationships to ancestors and future ancestors, and people contemporarily today. So, that’s how I’m engaging with radical love. I think there are particular sites that hold it really well. And are doing that dope, subaltern work I was speaking to earlier. So yeah, that’s radical love, and freedom lands are very similar spaces where Blackgirls, femmes, GNC folks, can feel free – can feel like, I don’t really like the language of ‘safe space’ cause that’s a – as a Black woman/Blackgirl, I’ve never really felt safe in the space I’m supposed to feel safe in. Like, school didn’t feel like a safe space for me. Often times, the places I work don’t feel like safe spaces for me. I think that, where I feel most free is where I’m gathered with other Blackgirls. And I think that those are examples of freedom lands, where I can like, breathe a little bit deeper. Or like, say something and don’t have to explain it. Or, not be afraid of how it comes out – I think Abolition Science is a freedom land for me. I’m feeling that right now.
LS: Aww.
LC: In that moment for sure. So yeah, that’s how – those are some ideas, some little theories I’m wrestling with in my work. Um, and they feel good to me. I hope they feel good to other people.
[47:52]
AG: Oh my goodness. You all heard it here right here. Yeah, you dropped that citation.
[Loren laughing.]
AG: Because we will be coming for you if you don’t accurately cite. Cite Black Woman.
LS: I’m not trying to say that we put y’all on, but ah.
[All laughing.]
AG: What. Oh my, my heart is full. Thank you, Loren. Oh my goodness.
[48:16]
LS: So full.
AG: There’s so much love and hope that is radiating from this work that you are undertaking. And that you’re sharing with us today, like.
LC: Thank y’all for having me. It’s good to be in community with y’all. It feels really good in this moment where we’re so isolated to share space in this way, so thank y’all.
[48:38]
LS: Yeah. Thank you. Like, I could keep you here for longer. Ha ha. But we’re gonna respect your time.
LC: Ha ha. I appreciate it.
LS: How can listeners get in contact with you? So, are you on social media, or if you have any upcoming projects? So yeah, how can folks get in touch with you and then let us know anything that you got coming up.
[48:58]
LC: Yeah, so, I just made a website for my dissertation work. It’s kinda like a living room. It’s fluid. Living room for my dissertation.
AG: Ohh ok.
LS: Ayy.
LC: It’s actually the same title as my dissertation, it’s called The Space Love Maps. And you can just google that, www.thespacelovemaps.com . It’s cute. Go spend some time on there. You can also contact me through my website there.
Other upcoming projects that I’m working on, a lot of my attention is on my dissertation. I’m trying to graduate in the spring. But some other projects, cause I don’t know how to sit still, is I’m doing some work with one of my close colleagues, Chinyere Okafor, and we’re writing a book chapter right now on Black Sistering, and we’re speaking to the ways in which we’ve had to sister each other, or bear witness for each other across our PhD experience. So that’s dropping soon, so look out for that.
Some other work, the radical love theory that I was doing, I wrote a biomythography on it and that’s dropping – I just got it accepted into Visual Arts. They’re doing a special issue on Blackgirlhood, the Arts and Aesthetics of Blackgirlhood. So, that just got accepted. Some of my work with the Colored Girls Museum is coming out, and in some other issues. But. Those are my writing projects right now.
And would love to engage with people – just hit me up on the website. And we can talk a little bit more.
[50:21]
AG: Y’all, the link will definitely be on the site. It’s gonna be on the insta, it’s gonna be on the socials – so look out for that. Wow. Again, I can’t thank you enough.
LC: Thank y’all. Thank y’all for having me this was gorgeous.
[50:35]
[Music Plays♫]
LS: Yes, thank you, enjoy the rest of your weekend.
LC: Alright, take care.
[Music Stops♫]
[50:41]
LS: Alright y’all. We hope y’all enjoyed that conversation with Loren Cahill, soon to be Dr. Cahill. So Derin, thank you for dreaming up that conversation because it was really dope. I learned a lot. So Loren gave us two songs. She gave Jamila Woods, “SULA (Paperback)” – which I think is pretty dope. And Noname, “Freedom Interlude.” So, check out Noname, but we are definitely going to listen to Jamila Woods, “SULA.”
[51:11]
[Music Plays – Jamila Woods, “SULA” ♫]
[51:39]
[Music Stops♫]
AG: So, you were just listening to “SULA” by Jamila Woods. And, man. That took us, definitely took me places. How bout you, Toya? Where you at?
LS: Where am I at? So we, so the clip that we just played was “SULA (Paperback)”, and there’s a video, which is “SULA (Hardback)” – which is Sula being a reference to Toni Morrison’s book, Sula, and I think the transition that we see from the paperback version of the song to the hardback version of the song, that transition. This paperback is much softer, more melodic. The hardcover is a little more upbeat, more percussion. Both sultry. So like, the underlying tone of what Jamila Woods wants us to get from “SULA” is there, but there was just this growth and transition that happened. So it just made me think about, sort of what we talked about with Harriet Tubman and how she – her role in the movement changed over time. But like, who – what held her at her core, was still there influencing what role she took up at the different points in her life.
[52:53]
AG: Mmm.
LS: Ah. What about you?
AG: Yeah. I definitely feel like I resonate with what you shared. In the realm of transformation, and I find myself thinking in – by way of imagery. Right, I – envision really, as I was listening, kind of, being in a living room and sitting at the feet of multiple different Black women, who are telling their story and in the story, you’re listening to all the different ways they have, on their journey, they are evolving, right.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: Also within that time, within that space, seeing myself also reflect upon my journey and all the ways I’ve also evolved and it’s just – yeah. So, kind of sitting with that imagery and um, reflecting upon the transformation that has taken place and is yet to take place, too.
[52:58]
LS: Ooh. Ok.
AG: Yeah.
LS: Yeah, when you. I’m like, looking up the lyrics. And, when we go from beginning to end, I mean, there’s definitely a transition or some sort of growth happening. But that, that repeat of that line, like “I’m better, I’m better, I’m better”, is just so powerful.
AG: Yeah.
LS: And it’s making me think of what Loren was talking about with the radical love sites. Which is so – just sounds so good. Ha ha. Radical yes, radical love site, and freedom lands. Um, what like, when we think about global anti-Blackness, this like, anti-Blackness, we can talk about it even in the US regionally, it just looks different. Just thinking about the radical love, and safety and protection of Black people, specifically Blackgirls globally. And so, Derin, I’m thinking specifically about um, cause we’ve been talking about this SARS in Nigeria.
AG: Mhmm.
[54:56]
LS: And just, what does that look like?
AG: Mmm. Yeah. I think it’s looking like what we’re seeing on the ground right now in Nigeria with the Nigerian youth taking the forefront of that movement. And also, the communities there supporting those voices and those cries, right. Even though the government of Nigeria just recently said that they would disband this special unit within the police force, people are taking them to task and saying that that is simply just not enough.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: That there is more and that we’re not just simply – also, asking for reform. We’re asking for a systemic change, and that they have not relented in that fight. It’s been, what – we’re going into, at this point of our recording right, this is week 2 – ending up week 2 and protests are happening all over the country. And globally. To see it being recognized and folks sending out their love. And to keep that spotlight there. I think of that – that movement in itself, being a site. One of those radical love sites. Is that.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: In action, right. And yeah. Yeah, I think that’s what part of it is looking like right now.
[56:17]
LS: Yeah.
AG: Is that vigor, in their fight.
LS: Just so, we’re all on the same page. SARS stands for the Special Anti-Robbery Squad, which is a unit in the Nigerian Police Force. There’s like some history, researching that I need to do, so that I can be better informed about how it even started, where it came from. But I’m thinking, you know what Loren was talking about with cartography and geography and what were those things that was happening that made SARS a necessity. I mean, we know from policing anywhere – it doesn’t come from the people and it doesn’t serve, like, the people. Um, so just, a note. I mean, mainly, speaking aloud, a note to myself to do that work I said I needed to do.
[57:01]
AG: Uh, yeah. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of different – um, and it’s right in the time that we’re living in right now. The use of social media to get the word out is that a lot of the protesters and also people who’ve been victims to the violence of this unit and also just in general, police brutality in Nigeria, followed the hashtag #endSARS, they have chronicled just the history of what has been going on. Um, really the events that have served to be catalysts to what you see happening right now. And in terms of movement work, and um, in fact if I could probably name a couple groups who’ve put some of this information out there. There’s one group that’s uh, OnlyInNigeria – that’s the name of their Twitter handle. Uh, there’s one, ìrìn Journal [@theirinjournal on Twitter]. Ìrìn means to walk, a journey. It’s a visual journal, magazine type – they’ve been chronicling a lot. A lot of notable Nigerian artists and creatives, they definitely are on the ground there. I’m thinking about Yagazie [@YagazieEmezi on Twitter], Akwaeke Emezi [@azemezi on Twitter] – they’re all again, posting and also sharing what is – what are some of the organizers doing on the ground and just then, acting as amplifiers, really.
[58:27]
LS: Yeah. Yeah.
AG: And I think that’s really key right there. Is amplifiers, not being, you know – cause very easy, and we’ve seen it multiple times, it can be made to be about one person’s platform, but really using their platform in service of what is going on. And then, those are just a few that I’ve seen.
LS: Yeah.
AG: Really, take, step up in their role as amplifiers.
LS: Right.
AG: Yep.
LS: Not like DeRay. That’s not an amplifier, at all.
AG: Thank you. Thank you.
LS: Maybe opposite. Thanks.
AG: Thank you, thank you. Ha.
LS: Um, yeah, and so I, for that – for the #endSARS movement, I’m just wishing that movement growth and just wellness, cause it’s exhausting. Um, also just not just the end of SARS, but policing everywhere.
[59:15]
AG: Yeah. Yeah. And for folks to really, um, again – for me, when I see these sites, and I love this concept of radical love sites, it’s that, we look to these sites as a source of inspiration of what also to be done. And also, if we think about what we – about what’s going on here, in the summer, right. I don’t even know if we can count how many happened over just this summer alone. 2020.
LS: I know.
AG: It has been – um. And again, just inspired by all these movements, and especially their movement to end policing in the ways in which we’ve come to know it.
LS: Mhmm.
AG: I’m feeling extremely hopeful. In what I am seeing and how it’s carrying across the globe.
LS: Yeah, yeah. New worlds are on the horizon.
AG: Yeah.
[Music Fade-in♫]
AG: New Worlds.
LS: With that, we thank you for joining us. Again, um, Abolition Science Radio. We appreciate y’all – we appreciate y’alls support.
AG: And you continue to give us hope in the world and the time that is yet to come.
LS: Ok, bye.
AG: Bye.
[1:00:29]
LS: Check out our website, AbolitionScience.org, where you can find transcripts of each episode and links to many of the resources that we mentioned.
AG: You can also follow us on Twitter, @abolition_sci and on Instagram @AbolitionScience.
[Music Stops♫]
[1:00:48]
Mentions & Resources:
Songs Mentioned by Aderinsola Gilbert:
Tiwa Savage, “Koroba”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5goMslKxEWs
Songs Mentioned by Loren Cahill:
Jamila Woods: “SULA (Paperback)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5dwiQfbXZk
“SULA (Hardcover)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15hDwllgc00
Noname: “Freedom Interlude”: https://soundcloud.com/noname/sets/telefone
People Loren Cahill Mentioned:
Harriet Tubman
Dr. Robin Boylorn: (Dr. Boylorn’s Website): https://www.robinboylorn.com/blank-c161y
Leah Penniman: https://www.farmingwhileblack.org/team
Dr. Erica Armstrong Dunbar: Dr. Dunbar’s Website: https://ericaarmstrongdunbar.com/
Amy Matilda Cassey
Caroline Virginia Still
William Still
Mariame Kaba: Website: http://mariamekaba.com/
Chinyere Okafor
Books Loren Cahill Mentioned:
*Forthcoming Dissertation* by future Dr. Cahill – The Space Love Maps: https://www.thespacelovemaps.com/
Farming While Black by Leah Penniman: Website: https://www.farmingwhileblack.org/
She Came to Slay: The Life and Times of Harriet Tubman by Erica Armstrong Dunbar: Website: https://ericaarmstrongdunbar.com/new-page-10
Sula by Toni Morrison
Orgs, Collectives, and Places Mentioned by Loren Cahill:
Soul Fire Farm: https://www.soulfirefarm.org/
The Schomburg: https://www.nypl.org/locations/schomburg
Black Mama’s Bail Out: https://www.nationalbailout.org/history
Colored Girls Museum: http://www.thecoloredgirlsmuseum.com/
Our Mother’s Kitchen: https://www.ourmotherskitchens.org/
Black Quantum Futurism: https://www.blackquantumfuturism.com/
Wide Awakes
